2001 SX22 - TMME0012A101 - It sank 4 years ago?? Any info on repairs done?

[jdogg]

I'm looking at buying this boat.  HIN is TMME0012A101.  Bitzko confirmed that it is the one that sank 4 years ago.  Current owner bought it at an auction in California (??) so he has no history on it and has only owned it for a few months.  Auction inspection report shows good compression (180 to 182 on all 8 cylinders).  Hour gauge doesn't work...electrical could get fried in a sinking I'm sure.  Looks like it could have new seats...possibly damaged when it sank...

Anybody know anything about this boat over last 4 years?  Why it sank?  Anybody here own it and know whether it was repaired correctly?

Looks great in pics, but it's 4 hours away so I haven't been able to test drive or see it in person...

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rds/boa/2580753057.html

[wakejunky]

if i remember correctly Bitzko was on lake powell when a sudden storm hit and as he was trying to get to the dock a large wave sent it under. a guy in CA bought it and i think ended up replacing various electrical parts. i think the engine ecu was also replaced. guy was on here looking for advise but i don't know how you would find that post. if my memory serves me correct he did get it running. i think he even changed the rub rail to white. gave it a whole different look. original seats were most likely lost when it sank.

i personally would be a little weary of that boat. from Utah to Calif to Vancouver...............if it was a smokin cheap deal maybe but i wouldn't pay retail or even close. just my 2 cents

[jdogg]

This website is phenomenal!!  You guys are really passionate about your boats so it makes me want one even more, but I will have to check this one out thoroughly as you suggest AND get an amazing price on it before I touch it!!  A new motor may be required, if it hasn't already been done (compression is supposedly very good)...electrical issues...WAY OVER my head here so would not touch it unless I could get a mechanic's approval...one that I REALLY trust!!  I'll see if I can find that post...

I'm surprised that a wave coming over would sink that boat...even in a big storm??!!  Did it end up getting flipped over?  Do you know if the hull cracked or banged into anything as well that would have had to be repaired?

I had a really old fibreglass boat about 10 years ago that ripped a 5 foot tear of fibreglass off the bottom of the boat.  I was alone it the boat (thankfully!!) going about 30 mph at the time on a beautiful night.  I look back and water was POURING into the boat.  I thought for sure it was going down...I was standing in water up to my knees with wakeboards and skis and life jackets floating around, but there was enough styrofoam in the boat to keep it floating.  Not sure if my screaming like a Gr 8 cheerleader had anything to do with the boat staying afloat... 

[wakejunky]

big, sudden storms hit powell all the time. Bitz said several boats were lost that day. one of the down falls to an SX is that there is no "foam" in the hull. all that space is used for the ballast. The s22 hull i believe is filled with foam. no foam no float. most boats with proper foam can swamp with water and still float.

[Supraman]

Hey Joel.. Give this thread a read.. I think it relates to the boat you're looking at.

http://www.epicmarine.com/forum4/index.php?topic=286.0

[jdogg]

Yup, that's the boat.  I had just found that post and sent it to the seller...he was shocked.  I guess when you see a price that's too good to be true, it just may be... 

[Supraman]

I'm not sure if this is the same boat or not, but I saw this pic in the photo section:

[Supraman]

Let's try that again:

[jdogg]

That definitely could be the one!!

[jdogg]

I have been cautioned to stay away from this boat by a few of you and that's my first reaction as well. 

However, knowing that the boat seized when it sunk and now it is showing strong compression at 180 to 182 on 8 cylinders, is that not a sign that the engine was either replaced or rebuilt?  I am no mechanic.  Is it possible to fix a previously seized motor to get those kind of compression results now, but in a way that is only temporary?  If it is, would a leak down test be enough to show if the work on rebuild was done correctly?

I know electrical systems could be damaged when sunk.  Currently gauges are working (except for the Toyota gauge with hours, etc.; from the forum, it sounds like your boat doesn't have to sink for these gauges to be temperamental!!), which suggests that someone has fixed much of the electrical.  Is there not a way of testing that the computer and other electrical components are now working properly?  Would a Mastercraft/Malibu/SAN repair shop be able to test the electrical adequately or would they not have the equipment to do so?  Scope, etc.? 

I just don't want to write this boat off before I know for sure.  There are potentially a lot of positives (rebuilt or brand new motor, upholstery, exterior, and trailer looks great).  With all of these new replacements, I suppose one could argue that the boat may be worth MORE than other comparable boats out there??  That's a bit naive to say, I'm sure, but if a thorough review of mechanical and electrical components is done and it checks out well from a trusted mechanic, what am I missing??

[wakejunky]

if the compression numbers are correct the engine is in excellent condition. even if those are "wet" numbers there still very good. explanation- say you run a compression test and numbers are say 80 psi. some mechanics will add a small amount of
oil through the spark plug hole and repeat the test. the reason for this is the oil should seal up the rings per say and let you know if it is a valve or ring issue. if the numbers don't rise its a valve issue, if they do it a ring problem. i don't think you have either. one possibility is the cylinders filled with water and the mechanic that checked it out didn't properly drain the engine. it could appear seized or hydrolocked.

i think the real issue with this boat would be the possible future electrical issues.

1. water sitting inside connectors and corroding them over time, i see this at the dealership at times and those are cars, that don't get submerged.

2. computers that were never replaced, be it engine, gauge computer, accessory decc as well as ballast decc as in your case with any SX. while they may seem to operate now that can change over time. when i worked for Toyota i had an old 1985 truck come in that would hesitate at 3000 rpm. drove me nuts for almost a week. finally i was looking at voltage inputs to the computer that was located in the kick panel and noticed a white residue under the carpet. i pulled the cover off the ecm and you could see the salt water line about half way up the circuit board. after showing the customer he admit it had gotten stuck in the ocean and water filled the cab. that was 3 years prior. granted a new ecm fixed the problem.

being a Lexus technician i would be hard pressed to give it my blessing if it was say a Lexus ls400 and i could hook up our laptop computer to it and look very closely at the data stream. i could tell you everything was fine at the time but watch out for future problems. if your excited about the boat and willing to take the chance go for it. just a heads up if you have an issue that comes up and guys on the forum are trying to help, you need to keep in mind you may have issues that aren't pattern failures and even though everybody would like to help you get it fixed you may have a gremlin that we don't figure in. i would definitly let the forum know of your issue up front when you ask for help. on the upside you can always rent capt ricks scan tool. but keep in mind just because it will show you codes or data sometimes that's not enough. at least in my experiences. i know for sure a mastercraft/malibu/etc dealer will not be able to hook up to the obd2 connector and get any response. our boats need a very specific scan tool to read codes or data.

if it was me i would look at every computer in the boat and see how "new" they look. unplug every electrical connection you can and look for moisture. look at the paint on the lower part of the block. if it shiny, you can bet on a new motor, if its bare aluminum you can assume it came out of a car( which isn't necessarily a bad thing) just know that the marine version has stainless steel headgaskets and cars don't. ) if its old faded black most likely the original engine or a used one. id bet on original in that case.

 sometimes you can work around the bad computers. i ripped out my ballast decc and went to old school switches and you could do that with the accessory decc also. guages maybe an issue, im sure with time and knowledge you could work around that also.

good luck

p.s.  i think there is an SX for sale on onlyinboards.com if its still there.

[jdogg]

Again...I have to say a HUGE thanks for your comments, wakejunky!!  A lot to think about there...definitely proceeding with caution on this one.

[DENNIS]

I would hold out for one that never sank.  They are for sale every now and then, and I'm sure you can find one.  There are more available if you don't need an SX.  My S22 has been great for the past 11 years.  It doesn't have ballast though.  It works great as an all around boat.  Skiing, wakeboarding, tubing, and just cruising. 
Just my 2 cents.

Dennis

[jdogg]

I'm proceeding very cautiously on this boat and would only move forward if I am confident that EVERYTHING that SHOULD have been replaced WAS replaced.  Is it reasonable that a good mechanic could inspect all of the electrical connections and wiring to identify whether wiring has been replaced or if he sees any signs of corrosion from being submerged that could haunt me in the future with intermittent issues??  Same with computers or is that just like a cell phone...if it gets submerged, you can get lucky by putting it in a bag of rice, but that may not do it??

As for the engine, wakejunky said that marine version of motor has a stainless steel head gasket.  Are there other things that are specific to marine version of engine that I could check for to see rebuilding of motor was done correctly to marine specifications?

[jdogg]

I have been thinking about the electrical system a bit more and had a thought...

Considering that the boat submerged quite a long time ago (actually happened in 2004, over 7 years ago), if any of the computers, wiring or connections were going to corrode and fail, would it be safe to say that they would have done so already and that most problems associated with the sinking would have showed up already?? 

If these things are all working now, maybe it's fairly safe to say that they were either not damaged when submerged or they were damaged and have since been replaced? 

Again, I'm not a mechanic and maybe that's naive thinking...would love to hear your thoughts.