Trouble deciding

[2 tall]

I have been away from the Epic forums for a while, but now I am getting back into the Toyota swing of things since I am back looking for another new boat. I have been reading the poosts about why I should get an Epic vs. an American made boat. I am considering a Moomba Outback V and of course Toyota. I hear a lot about fuel economy which I am very excited about for the Toyota's. I also like the fact that after all is said and done it is a toyota and that speaks for itself.

I am down to these simple questions:
1. Will I need to be a boat mechanic to continue to enjoy my epic?
I don't want to be a boat mechanic. I like to use my boat and not fix it. I am great with Maintenance and simple stuff, but a mechanic I am not and don't want to be one. (example: I sold a Mastercraft because it has a closed bow, but I seemed to be tinkering with it all the time (hoses, thermostat, starter, things that were fairly easy) but I felt like it was an hour of work for an hour on the water.

2. Big things that go wrong, what is the real cost/worry?
I read that 90% of all the problems that come up can be easily fixed by parts found at the local boat shops. the other 10% scares me a bit since I really don't want to throw another 10k at an already 20-30k boat. A new Moomba for 30k is under warranty, but not for long. So I am going back and forth ont his one.

I am a realist as well. I know that boats require maintenance. I have been fixing easy stuff on my I/O and the aforementioned Mastercraft, but I am finding out as I get older that I like things to work and work well consistently. (Example: Every mechanical engine I own is a Honda with the exception of my I/O which is still under warranty for 3 more years)

Any insight?

[bullet1w]

At some point or another most of us have gone through the same decision process.  For me it was about 2 years ago.  I looked at Mastercraft, Correct Craft, and Malibu in addition to Toyota.  The price difference between my S-22 and anything else was at least 10k.  Its a calculated risk. Most parts are standard marine stuff.  I don't consider myself to be mechanically inclined but everything I've had to do to the boat has been spelled out in great detail and pictures.  You will not find a better group of people to help you with any issues you might have. Plus, if you need parts you can get them on this website.   So far, all I've done is winterize, tighten a few hoses and put about 150hrs on the boat.  Several Epics have over 700 hrs on them and are still going strong.
 If you don't have perfect pass on your epic you will most likely want to get it along with a ballast system if you are into wakeboarding. If I had to do it over again I would go for the epic.  I have friends that have Supras, MC, and Moobas.  All nice boats. I don't envy any of them.  If I had 60k to blow I might consider a Nautique. For now my kids plan to go to college and not to the X games so I'll stick with my epic.

[phenom_1819]

Ditto Bullet.  I think that most everybody on this site would agree.  I've had my boat for four years now and really have not had one major issue.  Every minor issue I have been able to fix myself (and I'm a mechanical idiot, hence the name -- read my past projects and problems for proof). 

When I was deciding on whether or not to buy an Epic, I was looking at Malibu Sunsetters and Supra Launch 21 DD's from about the '00 model year.  I have been on all of these boats and have not regretted my decision once -- in fact, I know that if I had bought one of the other two, I would have upgraded by now. 

Now here's my disclaimer.  I have debated buying something new for some time now -- I just cannot find a way to justify it.  My Toyota is too reliable, too easy to maintain, has the amazing support network of epicmarine.com, and costs so little to fuel.  Not to mention that the boats I would look at cost more than twice as much ('07 Supra 22SSV and the '05-'07 Malibu Wakesetter VLX).  I end up casually browsing a lot, but have not acted on my impulses (and don't expect to) -- I know I would not have any more fun on one of these boats than I have already on my Toyota.

So here I am, another happy Toyota Epic owner.   

[sailtl]

1999 Epic 21 with 980 hours. I boat the boat in 2000. It was a dealer demo with 40 hours on it. Other than gauge problem (which I fixed myself) NO PROBLEMS. I pull 3 event skiers and nobody complains about the wake etc. 4 gallons per hour for fuel on average. Of course consumption goes up when you pull 36mph slalom or bare footers at 40mph. Everybody loves the roominess of the boat and how quite it is. I ride in used MC, MB Sport, Nautique, Mailbu. I feel I have more bang for the buck than the other owners. That is my 4 cents worth.

[Bitzco]

Toyota boats SUCK!! Oh, wait, I've had three of them. Maybe I'm actually a very happy customer of a company that isn't in business any more.

[wakehead]

I recently boarded and surfed behind a new SAN 210, probably regarded as " the gold standard". Much updated interior, much steeper wake, in fact too steep for my taste, faster filling ballasts and better seats etc.  It was clearly more updated boat than my 01 Sx. I said updated and fancier, not " better". In fact vibration and the noise level of engine was far worse than my o1 Sx. Only reason I would consider trading Sx would be for better wakesurfing wake you get from other makers which has deeper V at the back. If you are looking for a boat with the best motor, look no furthur. How can you compare Lexus engine with old Chevy 5.7 L cast-iron block? I have over 450 hours, and the engine sings. This engine is expected to last about 3000 hrs before needing to be rebuilt compared to 1000hrs for Chevy's.

[2 tall]

I am once again impressed with the quality of the resopnses on this forum more than any other boat forums I have visited. Thanks to all your replies.
It is so difficult to look at those new boats and how great they look on the showroom floor. I always think I need one when I see one. Then I leave the showroom and realize that a chevy engine is about one of the worst things I could do to myself. I know there are tons of reliable, long hours/miles big block US engines out there, but I seem to always run across the ones that are taking down gas (and oil) like sucking on a firehose, and spend most of their lives in the shop.Eventually (sooner rather than later) they need rebuilt.
I am definitely leaning toward the Toyota the more I read here in the forum and the more I talk to friends with big block US inboards.
Do the Toyota's use the same maintenance parts such as starters, plugs, wires, impellers...the basics? I could get these at online inboard parts stores or through the website is what I am hearing?
How about the housings and the "aluminum" parts? can these be found on epicmarine? I think they can as I poke around....

My 2 favorite stories:
1. A family member bought a brand new 1996 Chevy 4x4 truck. He drove it 580 miles and checked the oil...it was a quart low. he took it right back to the dealer and they said "This is how chevy designs their engines...only a quart...not bad."

2. I was at the dock at a local boat shop that sells Malibu's. Some kids pulled up in a 2000 Sunsetter. I was asking them about the boat and they ranted and raved about the storage and the wake...I asked how it did on gas, they said they fueled up after 5-6 runs through the slalom course...I estimated their gph at 10-14 gph or more. Their dad was obviously paying for gas...ouch..

[eagle1wi]

Do the Toyota's use the same maintenance parts such as starters, plugs, wires, impellers...the basics? I could get these at online inboard parts stores or through the website is what I am hearing?

These things are coil on plug - I have original stuff - coils and plugs on my 99.

The starter - I am not sure, I think it is specific to our boats

The impeller is standard Indmar/Johnson 812B that can be found almost anywhere that sells inboards.

How about the housings and the "aluminum" parts? can these be found on epicmarine? I think they can as I poke around....

Yes, TMS parts has all of the aluminum stuff and it appears that they have them in decent quantities.  If they run out of headers we can get some from Aussie Land as they like this motor config down under as well.

[2 tall]

Great! Thanks for the valuable info. I was just surfing around trying to find some other Toyota's out there and there are a few, after having the closed bow MC I am looking for a V-drive. My I/O has that kind of configuration for seating and I have come to like it for the family and the dog, but WOW the V-drives are pricey. I can get a new Outback V for the price of the used Toyota (within a couple of grand). That is a compelling argument for those of us who work for a living and don't rely on trust find $'s 
Anyone out there have S22 vs. E22 experience? Is the open bow enough? I sure love that V-drive seating config in the back area. I am afraid I am maybe not shopping in the cheap seats anymore.....

[2 tall]

Well,
I called the Moomba dealership for a quote on a new outback V with literally zero options and it went to 34k without me even saying "does that come with fries?". So My decision is becoming easier. I had to convince the boss that a ski boat would make my life complete again, she actually said "sounds good"...whew ....that was the last hurdle. So I am going to probably wait until the spring and look for an E22 with the open bow.

I have seen some posts about this boat, but I really need some roominess accolades and some positive thoughts on how "you will easily be able to fit your 2 kids, their friends, your wife and the dog in this boat"

Any thoughts out there on the roominess and functionality as a family boat of the E22 open bow?

[azsunn]

I can give you my perspective on this.  I had a MC Prostar 205 which has an open bow.  I now have an Epic S22, The open bow of the S22 is able to fit 4-5 kids depending on their size ( I have younger kids), probably be a squeez to get 4 adults up there.

I have to say the room of the V-Drive S22 is great compared to my old Mastercraft.  We are able to take our family and another large family (5 kids) with enough room to spare.  The MC was really tight.

I don't know if this helps, but I love the S22 (especially the room the V-Drive gives).  I have never been in an E22 so I can't comment on that.

Clint

[wakejunky]

After owning both the E22 and now an SX I would say hold out for the V-drive.

The E22 makes a great all around boat. The bow is identical on the two boats. So the real decision should be what you want after the windshield. The E22 is great for adults and teenagers. It gives plenty of room to move in and around the boat. However it definitely splits up your passengers and almost makes it impossible to carry on conversation with anyone sitting in the back. If you have small children this would be a downfall. You will only get two passengers to the left of the driver. When I first got my V-drive it felt claustrophobic it gave the impression it was a smaller boat. I really missed the walkways on each side of the engine and not being able to jump off the sides of the boat, to cool off. It may sound dumb but I don't have kids and with mainly adults it took a while to get use to everyone being so close. It grew on me very quickly. I really like it now and love the extra storage. I do sometimes miss the engine cover in the middle of the boat it made a great foot rest and table. The wake on the E22 is OK for boarding but the V-drive is better. For skiing it is the exact opposite. The E22 does have the advantage on doing your own maintenance it is quite a bit easier to service.

There are quite a few of us who bought the D-drive and ended up switching to the V-drive within a year or two. If I had to do it over again I obviously would have just bought the V-drive. Everyones needs are different though and both are great boats. V-drives do cost a bit more but, you can usually pic one up fairly cheap between now and March. If you wait longer than that you will be in prime boat buying season and the boat could easily cost you 3 to 4 thousand more. Winter is definitely the time to buy, people are upgrading and need to get rid of their old boats. There are usually more clean boats on the market during that time.

Just my 2 cents. Hope this helps.

[bullet1w]

Here's a nice one on ebay.  A little steep but maybe you could work something out.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1123&viewitem=&item=230184019801

[lesman01]

That sucker looks brand new. I wonder where they got the Epic 22 chrome graphic? Pretty nice. Nice photos , too.

http://thedorscheldifference.com/epic22/

[Bitzco]

Yep, nice but pricey considereing that I got my SX 2 years ago for like 33K. I wonder why they put the d-drive specs on instead of the v-drive. It is an S22.