Epic slalom wake, dimensions question

[aedavis]

I've been lurking here for awhile and have read all the back posts in this forum, but I haven't found the answers I'm after.

I am an avid slalom skiier and am thinking about replacing my Four Winns I/O with a DD tournament style boat.  Right now I ski a lot behind an 05 Moomba Outback which I like, but being a Toyota fan (2001 Landcruiser, 1985 4Runner rock truck), I am interested in the E or X series Epics too.  I have a couple questions:

First, how does the E21/E22 slalom wake compare to the X21/X22 wake?  Can anyone compare the Epic wakes to the Outback wake?  I know the E21 was AWSA certified, but I'd like to know what it feels like at 15' off, 34 mph.  I am more interested in the open bow versions due to having 3 kids, but I also want a premium slalom wake.  Can I get that with the E22/X22?

Second, can anyone tell me the dimensions of the 21' and 22' Toyotas on the trailer?  I'd like to know ahead of time if one of these will fit in my garage, and if not, how large I'll have to build an additional garage.

Third, does anyone within a couple hours of Pueblo West, CO have a DD Epic that they'd be willing to give me a pull behind?  I'm not going to be buying anything for at least a year or so, but I'd like to know what the Epic wake feels like firsthand.

Thanks for any help with this,

Allan

[eagle1wi]

15' off at 34 is pretty far back (at least to me) and I doubt you'd notice much of a difference back there

At shorter line lengths I would bet that the wakes are a little softer on the moomba because of its weight and depth.

Last time I saw one I noticed it was pretty shallow in the rear - kind of like a Malibu Sportster.

If you have an I/O now the upgrade to a E/X 21/22 will be significant

I want to say that I've read that at 28' off the 22's can be a bit harsh but farther in you are good (probably a 8 year old WaterSki Mag review).  I don't have a 22 so don't depend on that evaluation until you try it.  A lot of boats have this "bump" but on the 21's it is less of an issue.

The X's weigh a little more but I doubt that will affect your skiing much, if any, until you are running way shorter line lengths and taking your micrometer with you to set up your ski.

[eagle1wi]

22' off - free skiing

Me on my 1999 E21 @34 MPH

Too much weight on the spotter side of the boat

[masonlk]

Slalom only, you can't beat the E21. I have a E22 because the kids want to wakeboard and it works well for both. I love skiing behind my boat recreationally but I don't think I'd bother to drop it in a private lake and run a course with it. There is a real sweet spot behind the E22 starting at 15' off and runs for about 15 feet at 32mph. The wake is pretty soft. Just pull that rope into your waist and stay on edge  . Eagle 1's wake is definitely flatter all the way forward. I'll see if I can dig up some pictures to post.

[boneil]

I used to be a "slalom hero."  Gave it up after a sunset run on glass and drinking beer all day on the Rapahanick River in VA.  Wakeboarding just so much better as I age.

On topic... that wake on eagles post looks pretty sweet!  If you look close it is "rampy," but extremely small.  Better than any I/O wake on the planet.  Even my wake with a V-drive is heavens above above an I/O at slalom speeds.  And eagle's is far better than what I'm used to on I/O. or what I used to ski behind...  almost non existant.

There is always a trade off.  I almost purchased a Mobius V... (THANK GOD THE FINANCING FELL THROUGH!!!!!)  but the "spoon" shape of the hull beat me up with small waves on the test drive.  Not to mention that the transmition blew when the guy tried to impress me with a hockey stop or 180 turn.

In my opinion, Toyota built a "flexible" boat with models that cater to specific riders.  If Slalom is your passion then go for a 21.  Shorter boat... better slalom wake (in my opinion).  But the more V there is in bow hull to defend rough water the more wake when running buoys.  

If your looking for the best slalom wake on the planet then this boat is not for you.  If your looking for the best boat on the planet and you really mean it then this boat is for you.  

Just got back from a trip on Norris TN where my buddies wife lit it up on a slalom ski behind their 03 Malibu DD at 38.  And she lit it up... 3-4 times her height in spray on the port and 2x her height on starboard.  Wake was less rampy, but still same height as Eagles.   But when we wakeboarded later that evening with ballast and the 1200 lb "wedge" down the wake was only a peak.  9 people came in the next day and the TOY was the boat of choice with "sick" and "biggest ever" wake.  Video to follow next week.

Back on topic... Eagle's wake can be increased to wakeboard, tube, knee board, etc....  Or he can keep it small and just have a minor bump while setting up the next turn....    

I've boarded behind an outback and you could expect a similar wake to the 03 bu or 21 epic at the lengths you described.... Just depends on how hard you hit it.  

B  

[shawn]

Here is 15 off @ 34 MPH

[shawn]

Sorry, it's a 2001 X22

[ScarabEpic22]

I pretty much only ski behind our 99 E22 and love the wake.  The wake is definitely bigger than our friend's 97 MC ProStar 205, but much softer to go through.  It amazes me how much the MC wake hurts when cutting, my ski pops up a lot (and its not just me, my dad does it too, and he is a WAY better skiier than I am).  The other boat I can compare it to is a 98 Ski Natique (20ft).  This boat has a huge wake in comparison, but its super soft.  I like the Epic wake the best, and it still throws up a fat wake at low speeds when Im boarding.  I dont know how much of a difference the wake plate that 00+ E22s have makes, so next year I have to get a pull behind Steve (masonlk)'s 00 E22.  If it makes a difference we plan to get it installed by a good fiberglass shop in Seattle, there are tons there.

To sum it up: (small to large)
Wake size: MC<E22<Natique
Wake firmness: Natique<E22<MC
Holeshot: MC<E22<Natique  (this ones a little unfair as we have a 3-blade prop and the others both have 4-blades)
Interior: MC<Natique<<<<<E22 (no comparison, the Epics are way better)

Now mind you that the Natique is a closed bow, the MC and E22 are open. The Natique has the regular PCM 5.7L V8 (carb) engine and the MC has the Corvette 5.7L LT1 V8 (FI), but from what Ive seen and driven the E22 will still outrun the MC by a little and the Natique by a bunch.

Basically, the E21 is a great ski-only boat, get the E22 for a great compromise btw comfort and wake, and the X22 is an E22 with a tower and ballast tanks (that you can empty via rocker switches).  I think the E22 and X22 wakes should be almost identical.

Ohh, and all of us ski at 15" off, about 4K RPM on the E22, 3400RPM on the MC, and I cant remember the Natique.  Both my speedos are screwed (gotta fix that over the winter), but on the MC it shows about 34-35mph on both speedos (which the owner has calibrated).

Hope this helps a little

[cyclone]

The wakeplate that was added to the Epic22/X22 in '00 was a bandaid to keep the boat from porpoising when ballasted with stock  ballast in the trunk. If you add some to the front, you probably don't need the plate. I think they retrofitted a lot of boats, but my '00 had a sculpted out place for it in the hull.

My stock SX porpoises a bit with stock ballast, I'm gonna add an underseat sack and some lead weight.

[epic_toy]

I have a E21 and got it cause I wanted to ski. But, I dont completely agree it is ski-only. I can load it up and get the wake plenty big. I can surf all day behind it too. It is only a foot shorter.

A guy I was talking to at Ski Masters in Seattle also has a 21 as well and is an avid wakeboarder. Says loaded up it's his favorite wake and working there has been behind a lot of boats...

Hope that helps.