Can't Start Boat Twice

[Avidx22]

Howdy! Have a 1999 X22. Store it for over eight months each year (Northeast). Use proper amount of fuel preservative. Boat starts right up after long winter. Idles nice to temp. Turn it off, try to start it again, acts like it's flooded. Wait a few minutes more and it slowly starts again. Bad plugs or bad gas, both? Need new gas or more additive? What say you all?

Also, seems like every season I replace a gauge. This time it's the water temp gauge. It's bouncing back and forth. With the oil gauge it was the sender and eventually the gauge. Would changing the sender be the solution or new gauge you think?

AvidX22

[Wet-N-Frugal]

Every winter I fill the tank full of Chevron Supreme and use no additive. And every spring she starts right up. Yet for the first time this year, my 2000 X22 was missing (a little). Ran the first tank out, more Chevron supreme, and problem's long gone.   

[Wet-N-Frugal]

These Medallion Gauges are 'smart' microprocessor based. Internally each has over/under voltage circuit to help protect the logic components... it will shut down the gauge if the power voltage high or low is violated. From my experience, you can kill the gauge if the overvoltage exposure is too long. Ultimately, the MDC regulates/provides the power voltage to each gauge. Either the MDC is not doing its job (whereas annually the weakest gauge on the its power is taken out), or there's nasty power spikes propagating into and thru the MDC. Measure the impedance (ohms) between the Common on any/all gauge connectors (center BLK pin) and the Battery neg... it should be near zero.

Do you still have the Pitot tubes hooked up?

When water penetrates inside the MDC, major electrolysis happens. Unless you have a Battery Switch in the OFF position, active 12Vdc is always present on the MDC printed circuit board. A live key-switch/acc wire (12Vdc) signals the MDC to come to life; This function is similar to the power button on your cell phone. So the presence of 12Vdc along with foreign moisture errodes the very fine copper traces (wires) on the printed circuit board. The power circuit (regulator) tends to go first for its where the active 12VDc is.

See the attached pic of a Faulty MDC 1600 board.  Note the rusty colored leads on some components. Many of the fine copper traces were completely 'eaten-away' on this board.


-WNF-

[Avidx22]

Hi Wet-N-Frugal,

Thanks for the detailed response. I assume form waht you write is that I shoud not have to buy a new guage every year.

If this conditon exists would this cause my volt meter to pulse a little as the temp guage becomes erratic. Other guages seem solid but they are the newer guages. And yes I still have the pilot tubes hooked up. I'll disconnect them and take apart the MCD (if recommended) and look at it's condition and check the resistance.

Will cleaning it help?

AvidX22

[Wet-N-Frugal]

You'd expect to loose maybe one gauge in ten years. If you're loosing a gauge per year, investigate the common denominator... the power. The power is the universal low-hanging-fruit to fix first. For if its not right, all kinds of weirdness happens. Then with the power stable, seek with confidence to resolve faults with individual components or functionality. For Sender, Connector, and wiring decay is going to happen.

The MDC (MDCC) dash computer has a sealed case. And rightly so, to keep the darn moisture out.  So these units are throwaway items. The faulty PC Board in the pic is from a customer, whom in a last ditch effort to salvage it, cut it out of the case in hopes of repair... which obviously did not happen. So you cannot open the case to clean or even inspect the PCB health. It's of major importance to remove any potential source of internal moisture:  those pitot tubes.

On its best day, the MDC is a bit twitchy.  You're going to see needles bounce now and then. The Medallion design team fell short by not adding more filters in the circuitry...  its a cost thing.  Expect the gauges to give useful, stable readouts, but expect very momentary, self recovering burps. This is why the alarms are useless; for a burp will set one off. I pulled the MDCC Message Center because the false alarms were annoying.

Preferably the voltage into the MDC exceeds 11.8VDC (Engine on or off). If not, clean connections, and upsize the wiring to get there. On any/all gauge connectors, measure the voltage between the RED/WHT wire, and BLK wire; only pull one gauge connector at a time to keep the MDC internal power supply under load. It should be very close to 7.0 VDC (+/- 2Vdc).  If this voltage is sagging below 6.7VDc, intermittent behavior may become the norm.

-WNF-

[IndianaEPIC21]

W-N-F

I have a 99 Epic 21 and have never had a gauge trouble until this year.  When I start the boat all gauges work but after about 3-4 minutes some will work then none will work then they all go dead.  I did have a stereo amp added this spring  but it is totally on it's own battery and with a battery switch.  Would your previous post apply? Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Chris

[Wet-N-Frugal]

Chris,

Yes the previous post is relevant.

Check the voltages as described. VERIFY THE INPUT 12VDC to the MDC is HEALTHY.  Monitor one of the gauge connectors and see if the measured 7 VDC drops significantly after the 3 - 4 mins; this is the WHAT, looking for the WHY (or cause).

(1)  If your still using the Pitot Tubes, there's a strong chance the cancer has begun inside the MDC. Which degrades the internal power supply.

(2)  There's the possibility one bad gauge is pulling down the entire 7V power buss.  Unplug all the gauges. Measure the 7Vdc to verify its at an acceptable level. Begin by adding one of the smaller gauges (oil, gas, etc), power-up and confirm the 12V in and the 7V out maintain the appropriate level for beyond 4 minutes. Add another small gauge, repeat. Continue with all the small gauges. Then add the Tach, the one speedometer, then the next.  If at anytime you add a gauge and the 7V fails, power down and try a different comparably sized gauge. If the replacement works, then continue; try the faulty gauge again at the trial end to confirm the fault. If the second gauge again causes the same fault, and the 12V in is good, then the internal 7V power supply is highly suspect; it has degraded to the point where it can no longer support all the loads (gauges).

(3) Should the 12V draw down after 3 -4 mins,  Possibly there's a faulty Sender Unit or some other external system component (taking 3-4 mins to overheat) which is drawing down the entire dash computer.

-WNF-

[Avidx22]

W-N-F,
Thanks again for your feedback. I ordered a new MDC from Vintage Parts. They had one left for $180.00 so I grabbed it. Eventually, I will get one of those GPS conversion kits. So if it is the MDC then the old gauges I replaced should still work...no?

AvidX22

[Wet-N-Frugal]

AvidX22,

I speculate:
The old gauges are probably toast.  If you look at the pic of the fried MDC1600, note connector P1 (5 pins, Top Center). This port feeds the same four/five wires to every gauge connector... they're daisy-chained. Every gauge will work on any connector; they are completely interchangeable. The point being every gauge is exposed to the exact same electrical stimulation from the MDC. The faulty MDC violates the normal operating specs of the four signals. Thereby the weakest gauge (the one with the least tolerance to the MDC fault), blew like a fuse, protecting the other gauges. You replaced that gauge, and one of the older gauges became the fuse, eventually weakening, and failing within the year.

================================================

Chris,

also look for:
(4) if you see the 7V climb to above 7.5V (up towards 10V) within that 3-4 min fail time, is telling of a blown MDC.  As per your fault description from above, as the individual gauges become exposed to an overvoltage they shut down (one by one). And if exposed long enough, the gauge will overheat and die.


-WNF-

[Avidx22]

Thanks WNF,
Put in the new MDC and it solved the gauge problem. Thanks for your help. I even think it made the boat run better. Not sure if that is possible, then again it always runs better after I wax it. : )

I talked to the folks at Medallion and they have a revised MDC model "K" which I am trying to find out if it solves the water infiltration problem. Like to keep the boat original.

If not, do you know the name of the company that sells the GPA hook-up which still allows for the current gauges to be used?

BTW, the the old/broken gauges I replaced thinking they were broken still work.

Also, Medallion will charge $279.89 for a new MDC.

AvidX22

[Wet-N-Frugal]

Glad to help.


Find the GPS upgrade for the MDC and MDCC speedometers at Nautic Laugic.
Simply plug the NL2 in-line between the MDC and speedometer gauge. A 5 minute procedure to calibrate the gauge to the NL2. Mount the GPS Receiver and NL2.  You're good to go.

http://nauticlaugic.com/NL2.html

And of course, the best thing is to get one before the MDC dies of cancer.   







-WNF-

[Avidx22]

WNF,
Thanks again for the info. Will check out Nautic Laugic.  Maybe get one before the summer is over.
Avidx22

[IndianaEPIC21]

WNF,

Let's say I am a bit scary on electrical task.  Would it work if I was able to unplug one gauge at a time to do a process of elimination?
I have "expanded" the hole under the dash of E21 and can reach most gauges to unplug.

Thanks,
Chris

[Avidx22]

Hey Chris,
I think I can chime in on this one. As mentioned in a previous post WNF figured that the electrical issued caused by the MCD will work itself through each gauge with each gauge acting like a fuse. So eventually, all your gauges will go bad and have to be replaced and the cycle will start over. At Medallion the newer MDC is rev K, ours are E and so they have made improvements. Still trying to find out if the latest rev fixes the water issue. Old MDC was $188.00. New one is $278.00...maybe so.
AvidX22

[Wet-N-Frugal]

Chris,

you can try that.  That said, by the nature of your failure I believe the MDC is a prime suspect. And would recommend you gather more insight into to its health. Otherwise, you may (and will) be perpetually chasing goblins in your system.

I still recommend taking all the gauges off, to see if the MDC can even muster 7V with no load on it...  i.e. like taking a person's pulse at rest...  if his heart can't beat normal while sitting, there's strong chance it will fail on the treadmill.

Thus place the MDC on the treadmill, and speed it up by adding more and more gauges back. The method I described in the prior reply is a decent one, and will determine bad gauge, bad MDC, or both.

Nothing to be scared about.  What could possibly go wrong standing on your head, under the dash, with little to no room nor visibility, and ten-thousand wires to choose from. Piece of cake. 
No really, 12Vdc is easy to work with... it won't shock you. The primary hazard is a short, which will cause extreme heat and sparks. This is why there are fuses/breakers to protect the equipment and human. So avoid a direct short by not allowing the Voltmeter's bare probe tips to touch each other, while they're in contact with the active circuit. And good start is to make sure your meter is set to DC VOLTS.

-WNF-