Starting Trouble- Electrical or throttle adjustment?

[jhardy3]

We are currently having some trouble with our Epic and starting it up. No problems with starting when we purchased it last August, but these issues have popped up after the local mechanic cleaned up some of the existing wiring throughout the boat.

You turn the key on and the dash and accessories work fine other than the courtesy lights will either not turn on or just flicker, and the radio will shut itself off if when on the "Tuner" setting for more than a few seconds. Even with these issues, the boat would start and run no problem. Now when you turn the key it doesnt crank or click at all.

I starting taking the motor apart a couple of weeks ago to access the starter. While taking everything apart I messed with the throttle cable and the perfect pass and then tried to start it, and it started right up. Put everything back together and didnt have another problem that weekend.

This past weekend we had the same problem with the dash and most of the accessories working, but no activity once you turned the key to start it. I jiggled and cycled the throttle lever, messed with the throttle cable adjustments, and made sure the cable/lever at the transmission was in neutral. We were never able to get it to start.

From what i have read on here, i want to say it is the Throttle Position Sensor or Throttle Lever Sensor that is giving us the trouble but I dont know for sure. The RPM's at idle are about double what they are supposed to be too, leading me to think it is a sensor as well.

Battery has enough power, but i have not checked any voltage at the connections yet. Also, the blower is not getting any power either. I am not sure if that is related.

Where do I look next? Thanks for your help in advance.

[cyclone]

Hey J hardy,
Check that shifter switch carefully, it can screw you up big time. There are engine manuals in the docs page that can help you troubleshoot the engine sensors, but thet are not generally problematic. I have had intermittentcy issues with the switch on the shifter and the battery disconnect switch, also check for corrosion in the fuseholder from the battery switch to the gauge/dash. search this forum, we've all posted these same issues before. its something simple and dumb.

Tote it over to my house on the other side of town and we can compare measurements to a running one:) I'm half kidding. Bring it:)

[toyotafreak]

Pete, sister's taking us up on our long-standing offer to hang  at Havasu... the weekend of your roundup. Love you man, but will miss again.

[jhardy3]

Hey J hardy,
Check that shifter switch carefully, it can screw you up big time. There are engine manuals in the docs page that can help you troubleshoot the engine sensors, but thet are not generally problematic. I have had intermittentcy issues with the switch on the shifter and the battery disconnect switch, also check for corrosion in the fuseholder from the battery switch to the gauge/dash. search this forum, we've all posted these same issues before. its something simple and dumb.

Tote it over to my house on the other side of town and we can compare measurements to a running one:) I'm half kidding. Bring it:)

Yeah i have been going through everything on the site to pinpoint what the problem might be. I will recheck everything as well as what you have mentioned and see if I can figure it out. I know it is something simple and dumb and it is driving me crazy!

I just might bring it to your house if I cant figure it out next weekend. I will update if i have anything change. Thanks!

[ATXChris]

If your guages are coming on but the starter just doesn't engage when you turn the key to start then I would focus your attention on the neutral start switch on the transmission.  Follow the throttle cables to the transmission and look for the connector on the switch.  Try disconnecting it and shorting it out and test starting the engine again.

Once the engine cranks you can try to track down other issues.  It sounds like you may have electrical power issues as well, so Cyclone's advice on checking / cleaning power connections from the battery down to the ECU and from ECU to ground are in order.

[jhardy3]

I want to confirm that these two small wires are the neutral start switch on the transmission. If so, I crossed them with no results.

[ATXChris]

Yes, that looks like the neutral start switch connector.  You want to connect the two conductors from the plug end ( not the transmission side ).

Here's the diagram of the starter signal circuit from the service manual  ( see attached photos ) ...

[jhardy3]

I am having trouble following you. I see where the YR wire is running from the ignition to the plug/connecter right behind the switch panel. From there i follow it the the sensor/connector on the transmission with the two YR wires. Then i see where one of the wires goes to the ECM.

Do i need to bypass the plug/connector that is behind the switch panel or is there something else that I am missing? Sorry, i am not very electrical minded

[cdlollar]

All you have to do is jumper across the switch in order to bypass the neutral switch.

Simply take a piece of wire and jump across the two connection point on the neutral swith or you can simple put both wires on the same terminal/connector on the neutral switch...either of these are done with the two wires at the neutral switch on the transmission.

I don't recommend running the boat with this jumled if it turns,out to be the issue...it's a safety switch to keep you from starting the boat with it in gear.

[jhardy3]

I have connected the two wires again and put them on the same post on the nuetral switch. I cleaned them up a little while I was at. Still no results or change. Any other suggestions?

[cdlollar]

It does not appear that the neutral switch is your issue.

Suggestion, check to make sure you are getting 12V at the neutral switch.
You will need a volt meter (tester) to do this.

-Positive lead would go on the neutral switch terminal, Negative lead would go on an engine ground point.
-With leads connected turn the key (ignition switch) and see if you get 12V.
     -If yes then issue is further down the path; may be in the starter relay or in the connections on the starter relay or the starter itself.
     -If no then you have 1 of 2 issues.
          -You either are:
              a. not getting the power to this point or (no power
              b. you don't have a ground connection between the engine and the battery.

-Move the negative lead from the engine ground point to the negative battery terminal and repeat steps above to see if you get a 12V reading when turning the key.
     -If yes then you have a grounding issue between the battery and the engine.
     -If no then you have a power issue ahead of this point, may be bad ignition switch or other issue up stream of the neutral switch.

From reading your thread is seems to come and go which leads me to believe you have a bad or corroded connection somewhere.

[jhardy3]

I appreciate everybody's input. We ended up taking it to Atlanta Marine since we dont normally keep the boat at home and have the time to go through it. They found a few connections that were not good and it fixed the starting, courtesy, and radio issues.

We were able to take the boat out for most of Saturday and were able to really enjoy the Epic for the first time since we have owned it. We still have a high idle, check engine light, and blower issues to look into, but those will be fixed with time. Thanks again!

[cyclone]

High idle is likely the PP cable hanging up a tad, try pushing on it where the brass swivel attaches the throttle cable to the PP cable. You might put some white grease on the base of the brass swivel so it doesn't hang up. Mine does it occasionally

[jhardy3]

Yeah that is what I was planning to look into when I get the time to look. The PP cable has a small kink in it from where the engine cover has caught it a couple of times so I am curious if that is the culprit. I am going to do a few things I have read on here and see how it goes. Thanks for the help.